Bork Bork!
 FAQ  •  Search  •  Memberlist  •  Usergroups   •  Register  •  Profile  •  Log in to check your private messages  •  Log in
 New Dream Theater CD - "Train of Thought" - A Revi View next topic
View previous topic
Post new topicReply to topic
Author Message
bigsado
Mistress E


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 3353
Location: planet earth (most days anyhow)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Stealthr4v3r wrote:

argh! must cleanse brain with healing angry german music...



mwhahaha Twisted Evil
my muppet movies will get you, and your little dog too!

_________________
-Boss of Things That Go "Bump" in the Night, Elisa Amy Levin

"I can't believe i gave my panties to a geek" -MR

Image
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's websiteAIM Address
chickiepie
Lifeless Reject


Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 2046

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Stealthr4v3r wrote:

argh! must cleanse brain with healing angry german music...


oo! Like Rammstein. Rammstein gives me the giggles - which I guess is healing, right?

Strife wrote:
That is a very disturbing picture- does oscar the grouch even have junk?


In some fucked up demented artist's mind somewhere he likely does. Not in mine though, of course not..

_________________
"So many of the people in the (Astrodome) arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this, this is working very well for them."
- A cheery Mrs. Bush
sourcie
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
Stealthr4v3r
Mother Superior


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 3113
Location: West Chester, PA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

puddlejumpchick wrote:
Stealthr4v3r wrote:

argh! must cleanse brain with healing angry german music...


oo! Like Rammstein. Rammstein gives me the giggles - which I guess is healing, right?


Well, Funker Vogt actually. Rammstein would do though Smile
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
maslow
Professional Pun Person


Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 4054
Location: Here

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

el loser wrote:
no, 80's metal bands sounds and looks like these guys...http://www.thedarknessrock.com/



btw, I just wanted to tell everyone that while I was in Germany they actually played them on Europe's MTV ahhhhhhhhhh

_________________
"Can't we all just get aloob?"


*The Traffic Lets Up, But Breathing Becomes Difficult*

Guy on cell: When the freeway ends, turn left...Yes, the freeway ends....Because the continent ends, dipshit.
--Hermosa Beach, California
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's websiteAIM AddressMSN Messenger
maslow
Professional Pun Person


Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 4054
Location: Here

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:05 am Reply with quoteBack to top

p.s., in a weird related post... I was talking about Labyrinth and David Bowie with a co-worker of mine.... whoa. She was saying that was the end of the time that he used to be hot....

_________________
"Can't we all just get aloob?"


*The Traffic Lets Up, But Breathing Becomes Difficult*

Guy on cell: When the freeway ends, turn left...Yes, the freeway ends....Because the continent ends, dipshit.
--Hermosa Beach, California
View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's websiteAIM AddressMSN Messenger
JarradJL
I like toast!


Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:35 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Ok, fan of both heavy metal and progressive rock here...

Dream Theater never intented to be heavy metal, but always tried to mix elements of both metal and rock into progressive to create their sound. They're definitely heavy enough (especially this latest album) to be called prog-metal, but they're nothing like staight heavy metal. That being said they still have lots of influences from older Metallica, and quite a bit of that is flaunted on Train of Thought. They used to hide their influences much better on their older albums (Rush, Pink Floyd, Yes, Kansas, etc.) but it seems they've lost some tact on how to "rip off" properly lately. There's one part during one of the songs on Train of Thought that is almost copied note for note from Metallica's "Blackened." Kinda sad.

I can easily understand why some people don't like Dream Theater because of their vocalist (who's actually been the SAME guy for the last 10+ years, so I have no idea what you people mean when you say "new" vocalist, since the guy from their 1990 album Images & Words is the same one they have now), because that's probably the biggest link to the 80s for this band. James LaBrie definitely typifies the hair-metal/cock-rock of the 80s, with soaring operatic vocals in a higher range than a normal male can usually sing. You'll find this same style in Queensryche, Rush, Fates Warning, Iron Maiden, etc. Ironically, even though most people can't stand 80s-style vocals anymore, what the guy from Dream Theater does is technically far superior to what almost anyone else can do right now. On that same note, every single musician in Dream Theater is regarded world-wide as being masters of their instruments, but appreciating technical mastery and actually liking it are definitely two different things.

Anyway, for those who are fans of Dream Theater, here's my take on the new album. It's easily their heaviest one yet, with tons of riffs that are taken straight out of the old-school Metallica-style metal. There's more anger and aggression on this one than anything they've done since Awake, which is their other "heavy and dark" album, and it surpasses even that. It's got 6 really long songs and one short one, totaling in just over an hour of length. The unusual arrangements and complexity, with lots of keyboards and intricate soloing (typical progressive masturbatory goodness), is still there, and there's many parts that are vintage quality DT. Some of the soloing on here is far beyond anything they've ever done before, so if you want to hear gods on their instruments, this is your album. The melody-lines are excellent and memorable as well. Overall, this album is the closest to how good they used to be, but also with a fresh new style of heaviness that they haven't attempted before.

I do have some complaints about this album, though. The lyrics suck. When Kevin Moore left the band (their original keyboardist) after Awake, the poetry and philosophical depth in their lyrics went downhill, and it hasn't shown any signs of improvement since. Also, the songs are all too long for what they're trying to say. I always felt that long progressive songs had to deserve their length, where the writers just had that many good ideas and it just happened to come out at around 10 minutes long. It seems like the guys were like "hey lets write an album full of long-ass songs!" this time. That said, there could easily be like 3-4 minutes of masturbatory soloing that could be cut out of each song, and I think they'd all become instantly better. But then again, this is Dream Theater, the pioneers of present-day progressive, so I guess I should expect them to showoff as much as they can. Finally, they've crossed the line of what I'd consider tastefully showing your influences. There's so many old-school Metallica ripoff-riffs in here that it just makes me sick. They did this with stealing from Tool on their last album (who's also a progressive band, believe it or not, they're insanely complex), and I thought they were going to get sued even then.

Overall though, this is definitely one of their better albums. The music is excellent if you can get past the showing off, which if you're a fan of Dream Theater you shouldn't really mind anyway. The melodies are some of the best they've done in a while, and after you've heard the album a few times you'll definitely have parts playing in your head afterwards.
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
Strife
The Flogger


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 240
Location: chester of the west

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Tool! A prog rock band???!!! HAHAHAHA My ass. Tool is a metal band. So says both their guitarist and bassist (Guitar World June 2001).
I cant really speak for the drummer and vocalist- but I hardly think you can call any guitarist or bassist a "master" of their instrument, unless we are speaking about SRV or Les Claypool- and SRV could easily play circles around any guitarist. Unfortunantly I dont think their are any guitar gods around today, but we do have some demigods (Hammet, Clapton, Lang, Wylde, Iommi, ect......). But calling any band a Prog band just because they are complex? I think not- Maybe all the Prog rock fans want is a band that is good to call their own? Maybe someday- but Tool is not that band. And I dont know if you can call any of Dream Theaters stuff fresh if as, you said for yourself, they ripped off Metallica and Tool, also I just looked up some of the guitar parts for Dream Theater and they are not that complex. All their shit is cheesy and trite.

_________________
I am Waiting
On a Mountain top
For the moment that the sky will strike
My apologies
are forever lost
soon to ashes in a flash of light.- Offspring (Lightning Rod)
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
JarradJL
I like toast!


Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The definition of being "progressive" is being complex, with the ability to write long songs, having odd time signatures, and unusual song structures. Guess what, Tool does all of that. They may not intend to be a part of the "prog-rock" world, but what they write and play is definitely "progressive" music. If Tool doesn't define what's progressive (being original and complex), then that word has no meaning.

No guitar gods? The names you mentioned (Hammett?!) obviously show you haven't been exposed to enough music to really have an educated opinion on that, sorry. What about Yngwie Malmsteen, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Steve Morse, John Petrucci, Michael Romeo, Marcel Coenen? If you don't know who these guys are, and don't know their music, then you simply can't consider yourself educated enough on the subject matter to make these kinds of statements.

Anyone who says that Dream Theater's music isn't complex either isn't a musician or just doesn't have the musical appreciation skills to truly respect what's "difficult" in music. If I went and picked almost any random 30-second clip from one of their songs, could you identify the time signature changes, the key, and the mode? Any random guitar solo would blow almost every other guitarist out of the water with how insanely hard it is. Dream Theater can definitely be cheesy and trite, but when you said that they aren't complex you lost all credibility. What have you actually listened to by them anyway?
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
Fearsome Anna
Bad Kitty Kitty!


Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 657
Location: warm, sunny Tampa Bay!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'll be happy to answer that for you. Yes, he knows who every last musician on that list is and more. So, he's educated. And as for the complexity bit, Strife has 5 guitars, and can play complex stuff on them. Now before you unthinkingly question my ability to understand complexity, I've played classical piano for over 17 years and done numerous recitals and concerts. I know what the hell complex sounds like. And all I have to say about Dream Theater is big fucking whoop-de-doo. I can play harder stuff than that with one hand on a piano with the other tied behind my back and my eyes closed.

_________________
"A standing army is like an erection - an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure."
~Elbridge Gerry, Constitutional Convention, 1787
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailAIM Address
JarradJL
I like toast!


Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:42 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Awesome, it's good to know there's other serious musicians on here. You're right, there's obviously a ton of stuff that's more difficult than progressive, especially in jazz and classical, I would never presume otherwise. No one said DT is the best thing out there or even the most complex band in existence, but when someone goes and places Kirk Hammett of all people in a list and leaves out any of the guitarists I mentioned, I simply have to doubt what they're talking about. I agree with Strife about Les Claypool, who is incredible on bass, but so is Victor Wooten, Tony Levin, and John Myung. The guitarists I mentioned are considered some the best worldwide, and it baffles me when someone who SHOULD know a lot about music doesn't mention a single one of them, and instead lists several guys who can't even hold a candle to them.

Sorry if it came off as pretentious, but every single guitar student I've met (and I've met a ton) in school knows the ones I mentioned, and considers them technical masters at what they do. If Strife really is serious about guitar, then it doesn't make any sense why he either doesn't know the guys I mentioned, or didn't consider them good enough to make his list. Kirk Hammett? Seriously...
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
Fearsome Anna
Bad Kitty Kitty!


Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 657
Location: warm, sunny Tampa Bay!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't think it occurred to him to mention them - also, I think he confused you for someone else. Someone who has yet to say one useful thing as long as we've known him about music or anything else. Hence the, um, bite of his post. (Not anyone who regularly posts on the board....if you've seen me lately, you know who I mean). You on the other hand seem to have a very good grasp of music, which is great to find.

_________________
"A standing army is like an erection - an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure."
~Elbridge Gerry, Constitutional Convention, 1787
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailAIM Address
JarradJL
I like toast!


Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well I am new here as well...maybe I should get some kind of avatar so I won't be mistaken for that someone else. Smile

And yes, it is great to talk music with people who actually know music, even if we disagree on things. I only have a problem with people who act like they're well-versed in music but aren't really that educated about the music world, which (no offense here) is how Strife was coming off.
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
Fearsome Anna
Bad Kitty Kitty!


Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 657
Location: warm, sunny Tampa Bay!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

He ususally comes off a lot more level-headed than that! I will be sure to inform him of his mistake - I know he'll love talkin music with ya Very Happy

_________________
"A standing army is like an erection - an excellent assurance of domestic tranquility, but a dangerous temptation to foreign adventure."
~Elbridge Gerry, Constitutional Convention, 1787
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailAIM Address
JasonT
Supreme Overlord of Bitchassery


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 2246

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Fearsome Anna wrote:
I know what the hell complex sounds like. And all I have to say about Dream Theater is big fucking whoop-de-doo. I can play harder stuff than that with one hand on a piano with the other tied behind my back and my eyes closed.


This bothers me to know end. 99.99999 percent of the guitarists and pianists I've ever met can't do this or even claim to. This is a very ignorant claim to make.

All this talk of guitars make me want to pick one up. yay.

_________________
Bezier Ninja

reworking portfolio...
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
Stealthr4v3r
Mother Superior


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 3113
Location: West Chester, PA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

your favorite bands suck
View user's profileSend private messageAIM Address
Display posts from previous:      
Post new topicReply to topic


 Jump to:   



View next topic
View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group :: FI Theme :: All times are GMT - 5 Hours