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 return of the king (WARNING SPOILERS) (unless you read it) View next topic
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JarradJL
I like toast!


Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I gotta jump on the bandwagon AGAINST the books as well. I suffered through the trilogy many years ago, and there were a few things I couldn't stand about the way Tolkien writes:

1) Narrative style - it reads like the Bible, or a very descriptive History textbook.
2) Lack of internal emotions/thoughts of characters - while Tolkien expounded in great detail on many things, he rarely ever went INSIDE the mind of a character where we actually were exposed to their thoughts. As a consequence I felt that I did not truly know any of the characters, and had almost no emotional attachment to any of them. I was merely a spectator rather than someone who should be seeing the world through their eyes. It's all about internal perspective when it comes to fleshing out characters, and I think Tolkien failed at this.
3) Lack of description when it matters and too much description otherwise - Tolkien must have been a fan of Charles Dickens, who would spend several pages describing a man walking into a bar and taking off his hat. There's way too much detail involved in trivial things, and not nearly enough description of events that are important. For example, he spent longer describing the ring that Galadriel wore on her hand than the entire scene when Wormtongue killed Saruman, or when Gollum bites off Frodo's finger and falls over the edge. Priorities anyone?
4) Poems and songs - It's really great that Tolkien spent so much time creating cultures and languages with rich histories and all that, but if you go back through the three books and count the amount of time he spends on songs and poems, and compare it to the amount of time he spends on critical events in plot, you'll notice that it's imbalanced heavily in the favor of the songs.

In truth, I'd love for someone to go re-write the entire story with a modern literary style, but stay completely accurate concerning everything that happens and use the dialogue found in the movie. I actually think it would be a much better read.

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bigsado
Mistress E


Joined: 02 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 9:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

well, there's your new project....

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JarradJL
I like toast!


Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Nah, I think I'd rather stick with the novel I'm currently working on (did I ever show you any of it?) Oh, by the way, finished Enchanted....GOOD BOOK. Damn good, you were right.

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bigsado
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

i love that book! it was so good, def want to read it again. you showed me the furst chapter of a story about an assasin. that the one you are talking about?

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BrianW
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
2) Lack of internal emotions/thoughts of characters


As I side note, the reason I love Orson Scott Card so much is because you spend almost the entire time INSIDE the character's heads and you do grow attached to them because you know them so well. That and because they're so real and human.

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maslow
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Joined: 08 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 9:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, I'm no expert on this, and I can't make any claims here, but I DO know that Tolkien's real goal and true love was language. He was a total social communication fanatic. One of the main reasons that he made his world of Middle Earth and wrote his books was that he wanted to create whole new languages and creating a new world was the best way to do that. The songs are an integral part of all that, as much as the obvious ones are, like elven, dwarven, orcish and others.

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BrianW
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:32 am Reply with quoteBack to top

http://www.neomonsterisland.com/a_archives/010/483/1.html

Too funny.

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pomenti
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 11:59 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ok, so I finally saw the movie and I liked it. However, then ending kept going on and on and on and I was just thinking to myself toward the end .......... FROTO, GET ON THE FUCKING BOAT ALREADY!!!!

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chickiepie
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Joined: 05 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I know. The movie was an uncanny copy of the book, wasn't it? *flash back to Christi reading the book and thinking "ah, the end.. but there's still a third of the book left! (O_O)*

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Strife
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Saw the movie- thought it was pretty cool- even tho all of the Hobbits had some really weird "moments", I thought Sam and Froto were gonna kiss a couple times, and where the hell did the Eagles come from and why did they decide to only show up then. And also, when Froto wakes up at the end, why does everyone start to laugh? After this all the hobbits have another "moment" rolling around on the bed.

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eponymous
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 8:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Tigger wrote:
Personally, while Mt Doom was..huhuhuh blowing huhuhuhuh it's top, I was hoping that a small burning clump of lava hit Aragorn and bounced off him into Legolas and both of them had to take their clothes off so they wouldn't get burned. THAT woulda been a cool ending!


I love you, Tig.

My main complaint with RotK can be summed up by: CITIZENS DEMAND LEGOLAS

I think that the two hobbit pairs totally had some su'm su'm goin' on behind the scenes. There were a couple of times when I totally thought either Merry and Pippin or Frodo and Sam were going to kiss.

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Stoker
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Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

JarradJL wrote:
In truth, I'd love for someone to go re-write the entire story with a modern literary style, but stay completely accurate concerning everything that happens and use the dialogue found in the movie. I actually think it would be a much better read.


And while we're at it why don't we go rewrite all the works of Edgar Allen Poe, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and a whole host of other authors cause they're difficult to read.

Seriously, the thing that seperates this book from alot of others is the fact that it's a difficult read. And alot of people may find the characters in his books flat and two dimensional, but I know a lot of people who would disagree, these characters had a rich history that didn't just span the Lord of the Rings, the Two Towers, and the Return of the King but also the Silmarillion.

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eponymous
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Re-writes and edits aren't always a bad thing - take the "good parts" version of The Princess Bride, for example. Do you really want to read pages and pages about a woman packing and unpacking hats?

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maslow
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Joined: 08 May 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You're the best.
I am so glad I wasn't the only one who was thinking "jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez, are they going to KISS on Mt. fujiwhatsi??!?" Elijah Wood was still a great Frodo, though. And Sean Astin played a freaking great Sam. It's hard to believe there is like a 15 year difference between them. Viggo Mortenson gets the "weirdest name to have become a household name" award. Ian Mckellan kicks much ass, on screen and off, for various reasons that are too multitudinal and kickass and [other cool words] to name. Legolas is still the pretty boy who keeps the hair in place even while snowboarding on [name your choice]. Yay to him. If you don't know his name, you must've ben dead. And I'm too tired to finish.

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*The Traffic Lets Up, But Breathing Becomes Difficult*

Guy on cell: When the freeway ends, turn left...Yes, the freeway ends....Because the continent ends, dipshit.
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shate98
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Joined: 26 May 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Bah to the Tolkien haters. BTW- Frodo, not Froto (guess we know who didn't read the books). Because I'm a geek, (duh) I watched extended fellowship in oct and then read the book. Did the same for towers in november. now onto rotk. by comparison I have this to say:

Why the books are better- read the appendices first! Also, all the characters come off gay in the books at times (kissing hands, hugging, saying things that people just don't say to one another)and most get married in the appendices. They are more complex in the books as well, particularly the side characters like Denethor and Faramir. But yes, I was waiting for Frodo and Sam to mack it on Mt. Doom. And the oh so wise Legolas was made into the dumb blonde in the movie.

Why the movies are better- Orlando Bloom.

Have any of you wondered why if the earth were in imminent danger it would take you 13 months to make the journey to save the earth when the last half of the journey was completed in under two weeks (even in the book)? If the fellowship hadn't spent all that time smoking up with the elves they might have made it to minas tirith many months earlier, saving the city and fort from being battered half to death, and probably Boromir's and Thoeden's life, since the orc hosts would not have been ready to march across the plains yet. Hrm.
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