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Stealthr4v3r
Mother Superior


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 3113
Location: West Chester, PA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

DanMeltzer wrote:

and if you're so desperate to get around the system by doing something which is questionable at best, then I question why you bother paying at all.


Actually it is questionable at worst. You seem to assume my goal is to break the law.

DanMeltzer wrote:

Musicians playing in the NYC subways can and will make significantly more than 3 cents per song (my friend was earning about a quarter a song, thats more than 8x what you feel like paying). What kind of market force are you going for, that musicians shouldn't bother coming out of the subway?


Are you saying that the musician has a right to a certain level of income? Your friend's music is worth whatever people will pay for it. If people pay more in the subway then he should stay there. If that is too little he should find a new way to make money. Your friend doesn't have any right to make money playing music any more than I have a right to make money writing code.
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Uty
Tang Soo Techie


Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 9583
Location: On a never ending quest to save my girlfriend

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:08 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Even if his goal was breaking the law I don't think 100% of the problem is the piracy itself. All these labels were found guilty of price setting in a civil suit. Nothing was really done about it at the time because Napster was on the front page. If they actually competed with each other CDs would be reasonably priced and less people would be pirating music in the first place.

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Stealthr4v3r
Mother Superior


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 3113
Location: West Chester, PA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Uty wrote:
Even if his goal was breaking the law I don't think 100% of the problem is the piracy itself. All these labels were found guilty of price setting in a civil suit. Nothing was really done about it at the time because Napster was on the front page. If they actually competed with each other CDs would be reasonably priced and less people would be pirating music in the first place.


Exactly. And it isn't like I don't support my favorite artists (i have over 200 cd's)... Anyway as I see it, anything that hurts the RIAA is a good thing.
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DanMeltzer
Zombie Monkey Pirate Pope


Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 360
Location: Up

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think you have misunderstood me. Im not saying everyone deserves to get paid enough to survive by making music. I'm saying that people who deserve to get paid enough to survive by making music deserve to get paid that much. By mentioning my friend, I assumed I was getting that point across. My friend, who is a great guy and a decent musician, is not great or all that special, and yet he can make more than a dime per person who wants to stop and listen to his music in the subways of New York. You seem to have assumed I meant that he deserves to get paid even more than that, and that I'm therefor saying that anyone who plays an instrument should get paid enough to survive.

I'm a photographer myself, and wouldn't expect to get paid one cent more for a picture than it is worth. I've found out that at the moment most of my pictures aren't worth one cent, and therefore I don't bother trying to sell much yet. I don't think I deserve to make money just because I'm an artist and I make art. I understand how capitalism works.

You originally neglected to mention that you were still planning on paying a good price for music from artists that deserve it, which is what I was in fact upset about. If you don't pay good money to people who deserve it, you're going to end up with the only people able to make money by being in the music industry being those who do cross-promotions (For instance, Jessica and Ashlee Simpson, neither of which have much talent aside from being attractive or being an idiot). I for one don't want my children to grow up in a world where the entire tuesday night lineup on network TV is reality shows starring crappy musicians who still make a billion dollars because 12 year old girls need something to spend their money on.

I'd still argue that buying music from this site isn't going to help get your message across any better than p2p would, and if you're going to skirt the system like this (lets be fair, it's legal, but it's still cheating the system) you might as well just get the music for free via p2p or some other way. I'd say if music isn't worth buying at market value, then just don't get it one way or the other, and I practice what I preach.

As New York's number one early morning film critic, Jay Sherman, once said, "If the movie stinks, just don't go."

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Uty
Tang Soo Techie


Joined: 03 May 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Wasn't Jay Sherman the main character in the short lived (but fucking hilarious) cartoon The Critic?

I miss The Critic.

Jay wrote:
Dad I understand why you glued your silverware to the cieling ... but why the cat?


Jay's Dad wrote:
You understand why I glued silverware to the cieling? Well you're crazy.

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HyLander42
Crazy Guy with Knife


Joined: 03 May 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

DanMeltzer wrote:
If you don't pay good money to people who deserve it, you're going to end up with the only people able to make money by being in the music industry being those who do cross-promotions (For instance, Jessica and Ashlee Simpson, neither of which have much talent aside from being attractive or being an idiot). I for one don't want my children to grow up in a world where the entire tuesday night lineup on network TV is reality shows starring crappy musicians who still make a billion dollars because 12 year old girls need something to spend their money on.


Not quite. If you refuse to dish out hard cash for albums, musicians are going to have to make all of their money off of live performances and tours. I have no qualms about paying $1 for a Dylan or Dead album when I know I'm gonna dish out more than $50 to see them perform. And I'd say your odds of producing music of a higher quality increase when every half-ass pop act that planned on making its money off of albums instead of performing can no longer do so.


Last edited by HyLander42 on Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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HyLander42
Crazy Guy with Knife


Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 1441

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:27 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Uty wrote:
Jay wrote:
Dad I understand why you glued your silverware to the cieling ... but why the cat?


Jay's Dad wrote:
You understand why I glued silverware to the cieling? Well you're crazy.


Come on! It's the only spelling rule that little kids can recite:

Little kids wrote:
'I' before 'E' EXCEPT AFTER 'C'!
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Uty
Tang Soo Techie


Joined: 03 May 2003
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Location: On a never ending quest to save my girlfriend

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Yeah I used to adhere to that.

And then someone corrected me on "weird"

So I really don't give a shit. Razz

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BrianW
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Joined: 02 May 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

That's because 'weird' is German. And Lord knows they can't do anything right. Wink

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HyLander42
Crazy Guy with Knife


Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 1441

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

BrianW wrote:
That's because 'weird' is German. And Lord knows they can't do anything right. Wink


According to dictionary.com, it's Old English from the word "wyrd". This is worth pointing out because, if memory serves, Germans pronounce 'ei' as "aye" and 'ie' as "eee".
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Uty
Tang Soo Techie


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

So then it is safe to say that 'I' before 'E' except after 'C' has been disproven by negation.

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HyLander42
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Uty wrote:
So then it is safe to say that 'I' before 'E' except after 'C' has been disproven by negation.


What's safe to say is that the word "ceiling" is spelled "ceiling".
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Uty
Tang Soo Techie


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Both of our assertions are correct.

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BrianW
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

you forgot the rest anyway:
unless it sounds like 'a' like neighbor and weigh
and weekends and holidays and all throughout may
AND YOU'LL NEVER BE RIGHT NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!

...I hate that rule!

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DanMeltzer
Zombie Monkey Pirate Pope


Joined: 04 May 2003
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Location: Up

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

HyLander42 wrote:
DanMeltzer wrote:
If you don't pay good money to people who deserve it, you're going to end up with the only people able to make money by being in the music industry being those who do cross-promotions (For instance, Jessica and Ashlee Simpson, neither of which have much talent aside from being attractive or being an idiot). I for one don't want my children to grow up in a world where the entire tuesday night lineup on network TV is reality shows starring crappy musicians who still make a billion dollars because 12 year old girls need something to spend their money on.


Not quite. If you refuse to dish out hard cash for albums, musicians are going to have to make all of their money off of live performances and tours. I have no qualms about paying $1 for a Dylan or Dead album when I know I'm gonna dish out more than $50 to see them perform. And I'd say your odds of producing music of a higher quality increase when every half-ass pop act that planned on making its money off of albums instead of performing can no longer do so.


(first of all, Franklin glued the dog to the ceiling, they didn't have a cat.. and yes, Jay Sherman is "The Critic" who in one episode wrote a long essay about how if you stop paying for bad movies they'll stop making them)

I'm still going to argue that the goods you're receiving when purchasing an album is worth significantly more than $1, regardless of whether or not you pay to see bands perform.

12 year old girls are going to pay full price for whatever goods and or services crappy half-ass pop acts provide, because it's not their money to begin with. Therefore NSYNC still makes $10/album and sell tickets to major arenas at $50+ (I saw REM at MSG, last row seats were $60), while you're sending a message by buying music from bands you like at $1 and seeing them play in a small-medium sized club (I'm assuming your favorite bands aren't playing Madison Square Garden sized venues every night, because I can hardly remember the last time I saw more than 3 decent bands playing MSG in the same year) for somewhere around $20-$30 (most of the bands I listen to play smaller clubs that are usually around $15). Your message that good music is profitable then gets across how? 12 year old pop music sells for 10x the amount your favorite music does, and 12 year old pop concerts bring in a much larger capacity and tickets sell for at least 2.5x as much.

The VAST majority of the society is still willing to pay $10 for an album. Your message is the same as voting for michael peroutka (constitution party) for president. You feel like you're making a statement, you're standing up for your values, you're making a point... but your guy only got .12% of the popular vote, and nobody even noticed.

Don't tell me you're saving money as a side effect of acting on principle, because the RIAA nor anybody else is going to give a crap about the 2% of the music buying public that starts using this service (and I suspect 2% is being generous on my part, 92% of people still prefer to buy music in stores, and I doubt more than 1/4 of the online purchasing community is going to use this), you represent nothing to them. Your message is one that the vast majority of the music buying public does not support... If you REALLY wanted to send a message you would show your support for p2p and just steal the damn music, you can still pay to see good bands in concert then too. THEN the RIAA would take notice of you. Of course, they would notice you because that's illegal, and you're only looking for a way to skirt the law without getting noticed, instead of breaking the law and risking ending up in the next huge RIAA lawsuit.

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