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HyLander42
Crazy Guy with Knife


Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 1441

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

DanMeltzer wrote:

I'm still going to argue that the goods you're receiving when purchasing an album is worth significantly more than $1, regardless of whether or not you pay to see bands perform.


Ok. When? In a later post?


DanMeltzer wrote:
12 year old girls are going to pay full price for whatever goods and or services crappy half-ass pop acts provide, because it's not their money to begin with. Therefore NSYNC still makes $10/album and sell tickets to major arenas at $50+ (I saw REM at MSG, last row seats were $60), while you're sending a message by buying music from bands you like at $1 and seeing them play in a small-medium sized club (I'm assuming your favorite bands aren't playing Madison Square Garden sized venues every night, because I can hardly remember the last time I saw more than 3 decent bands playing MSG in the same year) for somewhere around $20-$30 (most of the bands I listen to play smaller clubs that are usually around $15). Your message that good music is profitable then gets across how? 12 year old pop music sells for 10x the amount your favorite music does, and 12 year old pop concerts bring in a much larger capacity and tickets sell for at least 2.5x as much.


Yes, let's sidestep the entire question of why there are shitty pop acts. I claim that ridiculously inflated profits for people with limited musical and performance abilities are a consequence of inflated record prices. So, I suggest that if pop musicians can't become extraordinarily rich solely from producing records, then they'll probably just have to do something else. Oh, and this "earn your income from touring" idea isn't actually new; it's what they used to do "back in the day". Up until Jerry's death, the Grateful Dead pulled in millions annually from touring, so not only can touring support you financially, it can still make you extremely rich.


DanMeltzer wrote:
The VAST majority of the society is still willing to pay $10 for an album. Your message is the same as voting for michael peroutka (constitution party) for president. You feel like you're making a statement, you're standing up for your values, you're making a point... but your guy only got .12% of the popular vote, and nobody even noticed.



That's an effective analogy that in no way helps you prove your point. So the rest of society is willing to pay $10 for an album: good for them. I'm willing to pay $1, and in the spirit of free trade and capitalism, Russia is willing to accommodate me. Furthermore, you're assuming that because the price is $10 and people buy albums, that market has placed the value of $10 on these products, completely sidestepping the issue of whether or not the RIAA is setting prices. If people really want to pay $10 an album, then the market, including the Russian music stores, will eventually reflect that. Until then, I'm not going to let myself be overcharged because everyone else wants to be. Please, feel free to do that yourself; I'm not telling people to use allofmp3.com, simply stating that I do.


DanMeltzer wrote:
Don't tell me you're saving money as a side effect of acting on principle, because the RIAA nor anybody else is going to give a crap about the 2% of the music buying public that starts using this service (and I suspect 2% is being generous on my part, 92% of people still prefer to buy music in stores, and I doubt more than 1/4 of the online purchasing community is going to use this), you represent nothing to them. Your message is one that the vast majority of the music buying public does not support... If you REALLY wanted to send a message you would show your support for p2p and just steal the damn music, you can still pay to see good bands in concert then too. THEN the RIAA would take notice of you. Of course, they would notice you because that's illegal, and you're only looking for a way to skirt the law without getting noticed, instead of breaking the law and risking ending up in the next huge RIAA lawsuit.


See, what gets me is the part where you assume that I'm acting on principle for the purpose of making a statement, sending a message. Where did I say that? I'm acting on principle because I have principles, which, it turns out, aren't based on popular opinion. That's all. I'm not trying to change the system; I think the market itself will eventually do that.

As for p2p, I have no interest in stealing it if I can purchase it legally: I'm not opposed to paying money for products I like. I've certainly never claimed that music should be free. But if Store A is charging ten times what Store B is charging, I'm not going to go buy Store A just because X percent of the population does. If what you're saying is correct, if people really want to pay $10 an album, the market will eventually reflect that.
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shate98
Hot Artist Chick


Joined: 26 May 2003
Posts: 737
Location: P3X-982

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

HyLander42 wrote:
BrianW wrote:
That's because 'weird' is German. And Lord knows they can't do anything right. Wink


According to dictionary.com, it's Old English from the word "wyrd". This is worth pointing out because, if memory serves, Germans pronounce 'ei' as "aye" and 'ie' as "eee".



Old English= German. Old English is a combination of Anglo (germanic), Saxon (germanic), and the language of the original inhabitants of the island (celtic prob- I forget which tribe).

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Steveness
His Royal Whiteness


Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 1581
Location: Slower Lower... Maryland?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Sorry to get into this tennis match, but I couldn't resist to throw my opinion in.

For the last millenia, musicians made nothing. Bards and gypsies would travel from town to town singing songs and telling stories for scraps of food and whatnot. This has changed drastically in recent history since technology has allowed commercial media to thrive off the system (and make millionaires out of many musicians and music corporations).

I'm not going to quote people because it's too much effort - but someone said something to the effect of musicians making nothing unless they start a show like Jessica or Aslee Simpson. I don't get that at all. Other musicians are into many things, many have fragrances or clothing lines named after them - just look at Sean Coombs (sp? - AKA P. Diddy/Puff Daddy/Puffy/etc.).

People become stars once they get recognition - mostly from getting played on MTV and radio. CD sales are an indication for popularity, but not much more - I don't believe musicians get much direct profit from the sale of one CD.

As far as worth is concerned - someone said that music something. Every individual believes music is worth a certain amount - some say $1/song, others say $.01/MB. I say it's worth whatever you are willing to pay.

I used to buy tapes - remember those? Yeah, now they're worthless. Why?--- The music never changed... The technology changed to CDs, and prices increased - even though CDs are cheaper to produce than tapes, and cost less to record on. I wasn't given an option to trade my old tapes for CDs, even for a price. The money I spent on tapes expired, and I was forced to buy the CD (if I still wanted the music).

Then P2P came along, and everyone downloaded free music. Musicians are still rich, and the RIAA and music industry are still in business, despite throwing millions and millions into digital encryption, copyright protection, and lawsuits.

Technology continues to advance. People can borrow CDs and rip content for free; P2P still exists, companies provide online sales of individual songs for various prices. I just bought Sirius Satellite service - the Lifetime Subscription plan. I spent $300 on a car radio, $100 on a tuner, and $500 on the service - with no guarantees that the company will stay in business. Someone will probably come out with a cheaper solution down the road, or figure out a way to exploit the current services.

Honestly, I want to listen to good quality music. I refuse to pay $10-$20 per CD at a store, only to have a scratched piece of plastic when someone drops it. I don't care what other people are willing to pay - and I don't care what the music industry expects to get.

One day, someone will write a song telling the woes of the music industry and make millions, so they'll make the money back later anyway...
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BrianW
Court Jester


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7505
Location: Probably an ice rink in Newark

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It's my fault that Keanu keeps making movies. Nooooo!

So...ummm...Constantine tomorrow night?

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Vanblade
Lifeless Reject


Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 2911
Location: My pants are haunted!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

sure sure
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eddie_baby
The Geek Next Door


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 2288
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Steveness wrote:
For the last millenia, musicians made nothing. Bards and gypsies would travel from town to town singing songs and telling stories for scraps of food and whatnot. This has changed drastically in recent history since technology has allowed commercial media to thrive off the system (and make millionaires out of many musicians and music corporations).


You forget that if you wrote or performed for the Church or the King, you stayed well fed.

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